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【文/观察者网 阮佳琪】当地时间5月14日，日本著名政治新闻评论家田原总一郎在日本经济杂志《钻石》网站上的专栏更新了对前厚生劳动大臣，前东京都知事舛添要一的专访，与这位刚刚结束中国访问行程的老牌政客，花费了大段篇幅讨论他在中国的见闻，以及他亲历的中日差距。

二 |     LONDON -- Six days on since Hamas’ unprecedented multifront attack on Israel, world leaders are reacting as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu formally declared war on Hamas, setting the stage for a large-scale military operation.The incursion -- dubbed operation “Al-Aqsa Storm” by Hamas -- was the largest and most devastating assault on Israel since the Yom Kippur War in 1973. Militants entered Gaza early Saturday through land, air and sea, leaving behind a tail of terror.In response, Israel officially declared a state of war, launching "Operation Swords of Iron," striking suspected Hamas and Islamic Jihad targets in Gaza.Meanwhile, Israel also announced a "complete siege" of Gaza -- the enclave home to 2.3 million people -- by cutting off fuel, electricity, food, and water.At least 2,553 lives have been lost so far in the conflict with at least 1,200 killed in Israel with another 2,900 injured according to the Israeli Health Service. In Gaza, at least 1,354 have been killed and over 6,000 injured according to the Palestinian Health Authority.In a televised address, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu thanked the world for "standing with Israel," calling Hamas’ attack a "mistake of historic proportions."“We will exact a price that will be remembered by them and Israel’s other enemies for decades to come,” said Netanyahu.In Africa, leaders have been reacting to the conflict since Saturday’s surprise attack, condemning Hamas’ assault. However, their responses reveal divisions among the continent on the source of the conflict and who is to blame.At least two African nationals have been accounted for in the conflict, the Israel Foreign Ministry announcing two Tanzanians were among international civilians attacked in Hamas’s surprise attack on Israel.In a statement, Tanzania’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said Tanzania "mourns" with the families of Israelis and Palestinians who lost their lives, saying “We condemn all forms of violence … We call for restraint to stem further loss of human life.”In another statement, African Union (AU) Chairperson Moussa Faki Mahamat expressed "utmost concern" at the outbreak of violence that has had "grave consequences" for the lives of Israeli and Palestinian people.Mahamat emphasized the failure of long-term international efforts to solve the crisis, saying “The Chairperson wishes to recall the fundamental rights of the Palestinian people, particularly that of an independent and sovereign State, is the main cause of the permanent Israeli-Palestinian tension.”Morocco’s King Mohammed VI called for an emergency meeting of the Arab League Council at the headquarters in Cairo on Wednesday to discuss the deteriorating situation, saying the Kingdom of Morocco “expresses deep concern” while condemning the “attacks against civilians wherever they may be.”In the "extraordinary session" of Arab League Nations, Morocco’s Minister of Foreign Affairs, Nasser Bourita, emphasized Morocco’s “full and unwavering support” for Palestine, describing the political deadlock over the Palestinian issue as a “persistence of systematic violations and oppressive unilateral measures in Al-Quds and the Occupied Palestinian Territories.”Algeria’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs too expressed support for Palestine, saying it is following “with deep concern the escalation of barbaric Zionist aggression against the Gaza Strip, which has cost the lives of dozens of innocent children of the Palestinian people, who have fallen as martyrs to the stubbornness of the Zionist occupation in its policy of oppression and persecution imposed on the valiant Palestinian people”.In neighboring Tunisia, citizens took to the streets to rally for Palestine as national protests happened on Thursday with more planned for Friday. The U.S. Embassy in Tunis said on Wednesday it would close for routine services on Thursday and Friday in an "abundance of caution," adding that it received no credible threat.In eastern Africa, Kenya’s President William Ruto “unequivocally” condemned terrorism by Hamas, adding Kenya stands in solidarity with the State of Israel:“In consideration of the complex and delicate context of the security situation in Israel-Palestine, Kenya also makes a call for the de-escalation of violence,” said Ruto.South Africa has also called for the cessation of violence, adding the region is in urgent and “desperate need of a credible peace process.”South Africa also urged resumption of talks on a two-state solution:“[South Africa] seeks to ensure a lasting and durable peace that produces a viable, contiguous Palestinian State, existing side-by-side in peace with Israel, within the 1967 internationally recognised borders, with East Jerusalem as its capital," in a statement issued by the government.South African President Cyril Ramaphosa announced that South Africa is ready to help mediate in the conflict, saying “South Africa stands ready to work with the international community and to share our experience in mediation and conflict resolution as we have done on the continent and around the world.”Meanwhile, Nigeria called for a "de-escalation and ceasefire" through dialogue, adding it was “deeply concerned” by the outbreak of violence.“The cycle of violence … only serves to perpetuate an unending cycle of pain and suffering for the civilian population that bear the brunt of every conflict,” Nigerian officials warned.。

对话中，舛添聊起在中国看到的智能手机、电动汽车普及程度，多次感慨日本已被中国远远甩在身后，而许多日本人的时钟却“停在了30年前”，不愿接受“中国已经富有起来”的事实，仍基于旧的认识看待中国。

现年75岁的舛添要一，早年留学法国和德国，专攻国际政治，并长期活跃在日本媒体和政坛。2007年至2009年期间，他在安倍、福田、麻生三任内阁中担任厚生劳动大臣。其后脱离日本自民党，被选为“新党改革”代表，并于2014年当选为东京都知事。

三 |

当选两个月后，舛添出访的第一站就选择了东京的友好城市——中国北京。当时，他也成为18年来首位应北京市邀请、来京正式访问的东京都知事，中国外交部发言人华春莹对其到访给予积极评价。曾接待过舛添的清华大学当代国际关系研究院副院长刘江永评价其总体上是一个“对中国有好感、有平衡感和国际大局观的人”。

根据这篇专访，舛添最近又去了一次北京，这是他时隔4年以来再次访问中国。而说起这次的经历，他直言，作为一名长期研究国际政治结构性变化的学者，从历史的角度来看，他认为“美国的单极统治很有可能终结，下一个接管世界的将是中国”。

四 |

舛添还提到，中国每年都以5%左右的速度增长，过去四年累计增长了20%，中日之间的差距每年都在拉大，“我觉得日本目前已经完全输给了中国”。

五 |

在被问到具体在哪些方面感受到了日本的落后，舛添着重提到了中国的数字化普及。

他举例说，在中国，只要有一部智能手机。就可以搞定任何事情。

六 | “在餐厅吃饭，你可以用手机预订、下单和付款。中国智能手机的使用普及速度非常快，甚至在偏僻的农村，二维码支付都得到了普及，很少能够看到中国人在使用现金。我认为日本很难做到这一点。我倒是听说过中国游客发现日本还没有实现数字化，到处都需要现金，感到不方便，带着这种印象回国的情况。”

他还说到，中国大街上到处是电动汽车，人们驾驶的汽车和使用的系统，如汽车导航系统，都是世界上最先进的，远远领先于日本。

七 |

“30年前，当日本人驾驶豪华汽车时，中国人还在骑自行车。30年后的今天，中国人驾驶着最先进的电动汽车，而日本人还在开着过时的燃油车。”

他直言不讳道一些日本人的时钟停在了30年前，这些人仍然基于旧的认识认为中国是一个贫穷的国家，这种刻板想法令人尴尬，“日本已经被中国甩开了很大距离，但是我发现日本许多人还不愿接受中国已经变得富裕起来的事实。”

在舛添看来，日本泡沫经济破灭是由于美国的《广场协议》导致的，但它无法“东山再起”则是因为日本对于战后“意外”获得的快速经济增长太过理所当然，在关键行业没有“革新动力”，沉迷于“啃老本”。

八 |

他说，日本曾经在汽车行业站在顶峰，但他们不愿意放弃成功经验，迟迟不转向汽车电动化，充电技术也慢人一拍；在手机3C产业也是类似的情况，日本从业者执着于翻盖手机，缺乏转向智能手机的革新动力，错过了时代巨变，等回过神来，苹果和谷歌已经主导了市场。

对此，田原也深有感触。他说起自己曾与索尼公司已故创始人盛田昭夫多次交谈，对方常常念叨必须要挑战自我，做没人做过的事，创造高附加值的产品，哪怕为此失败三四次。然而在20世纪90年代，日本企业纷纷失去后劲，转而追求“不失败的经营”，不允许失败也就不会接受挑战，自然也无法创造新生事物。

两人还谈论了对俄乌冲突、巴以冲突的看法。舛添说，虽然他认为俄罗斯的“侵略”行为是不可接受的，俄罗斯的所作所为“违反”了国际法，但必须指出的是，归根结底是美西方先对俄罗斯做出了“过分”举动。

他在自己最近新出的一本书中深入探讨了俄乌之间的关系，“对于俄罗斯，西方做的事无异于在伤者伤口上撒盐……北约承诺过不会向俄罗斯扩张哪怕一寸，所以责任在于美国。”

田原补充道，相比起对俄乌问题的“立场鲜明”，很多日本人很难判断本轮巴以冲突中谁该被指责。舛添则回应道，以色列和哈马斯之间的问题不能单纯地用 “谁对谁错”的二元论来讨论，但两者相同的是，无论是俄乌局势，还是巴以局势的发展都被美国选举深度“捆绑”。

“当我谈论这些事情的时候，我感到很悲哀，因为乌克兰和加沙的命运取决于选举中的选票，而民主的弱点就是必须照顾选民的利益。”

舛添说起过去他与英国前首相鲍里斯·约翰逊的一段谈话。约翰逊通过推动“英国脱欧”得以获得民心拿下首相宝座，但舛添回忆称，他曾询问约翰逊对脱欧的看法，对方却回答道“我不在乎那么多，只要说我们要脱欧，我就能得到选票”。

九 |

根据英国《独立报》今年2月的报道，英国脱欧导致每年出口出现近1000亿英镑（约合1260亿美元）的缺口，使得英国的经济状况比留在欧盟更糟糕。

十 | 剑桥计量经济学会的经济学家发现，“英国脱欧对经济造成了缓慢累积的拖累”。

十一 |

舛添将约翰逊描述为一名“典型的民粹主义者”，“这就是民粹主义的可怕之处。乌克兰和加沙的命运都取决于政客的受欢迎程度。”